My Australian Story: Dr Parwinder Kaur

[Talks Archive Intro music and recorded preamble] 

You're listening to the Western Australian Museum Boola Bardip talks archive.  The WA Museum Boola Bardip hosts a series of thought provoking talks and conversations tackling big issues, questions and ideas. The talks archive is recorded on Whadjuk Nyoongar Boodja. The Western Australian Museum acknowledges and respects the traditional owners of their ancestral lands, waters and skies. 

Maggie Jiang: Good evening colleagues, friends, I guess my name is Maggie Jiang. I'm from UWA School of Social Sciences. It's truly wonderful to have you here with us on this Friday evening for My Australian Story public talk series. Now, this program is a joint effort between UWA school of Social Science and the WA Museum and we are delighted to have your presence enriching the event. 

Before we commence, I'd like to acknowledge the owners of land on which we meet today and pay my respect to the elders past, present and emerging. The essence of the My Australian Story program is to celebrate the journeys of those who chosen Australia and their home and forging successful careers and our aim is for these stories to transcend cultural barriers and hopefully inspiring all individuals from all walks of life. 

Tonight marks the fourth instalment of this program, following the success of our previous sessions. Now, for those who are new to our gatherings, let me briefly outline the format. In each session, we are privileged to host a distinguished speaker to generally share their stories, the journey, and the invaluable wisdom they've gained through all along that way. We reserve ten minutes for Q and A session, so to give you opportunity to engage directly with our speaker followed by a networking session, encourage further connection and conversations. 

Now, none of this would be possible without the generous support from our school and the WA museum. And tonight, we are grateful to have senior leaders from both institutions. We have Mr. Alec Coles, CEO of the WA Museum and Professor Amanda Davis, head of School of Social Science at UWA. 

Now, professor Amanda Davis will have the honour of introducing our distinguished speaker for the evening. Please join me in welcoming Professor Amanda Davis to the stage. 

Professor Amanda Davies: Good evening. It is my great pleasure to introduce and, our speaker tonight, Associate Professor Parwinder Kaur. She's a proud Indian, Australian and award winning scientist, a passionate leader, a truly transformative STEM communicator, which is something that we all strive towards in the, in academia, a highly positive role model and as a mother and a scientist who is committed to working for the next generation, a truly, iconic West Australian.  

She leads cross-disciplinary biotechnology research investigating Earth's biodiversity and natural environments to ensure a sustainable future. She uses her expertise to reach people in new ways, connecting them with their surroundings and elevating their research and their voices. Through this approach, her work is helping us to tackle bigger issues that we are facing as a society, and this is showing us the very real power of applying really fresh thinking to very complex issues. 

Because of the work, she has got quite a number of awards. Some of these noteworthy achievements, including receiving the prestigious Science and Innovation Award from the Australian Academy of Sciences in 2013, winning Microsoft's AI for Earth Award in 2019, being recognized as a finalist in the Western Australian Innovator of the year in 2022, and earning the esteemed Australian Seek Woman Of The Year For Excellence in 2023. It's quite a lot. She has been inducted into the WA Women's Hall of Fame in 2023 and is an adept science communicator, entrepreneur in the biotechnology sector, and is also an ardent advocate for gender equality and has a number of roles to this, this portfolio.  

Professor Kaur’s story is a testament to the transformative power of curiosity, resilience, and the unwavering belief that we should all have in science and ourselves. It illustrates that within life's complexity, solutions prevail when we dare to explore, when we persist, and when we truly believe. Please join me in welcoming Professor Core to speak to us tonight. 

Professor Parwinder Kaur:  Thank you so much, Amanda, for that kind introduction. Kaya Everybody., Good evening, namaste salaam and sata sri akal. Before I begin, I really want to take a moment to acknowledge the traditional owners of this land where we gather today. I pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging, and express gratitude for their stewardship of this gorgeous country. 

I deeply appreciate all the Western Australians who showed a warm embrace of me and my family as part of their community, and I'm really, really grateful for that. 

A warm welcome to all the distinguished guests and all the attendees who are giving their Friday evening, to listen to my story. I am I am truly thankful for this opportunity. Thank you so much, Maggie, for curating these series. I think it's absolutely phenomenal.  

I have been inspired listening to the previous speaker so it's a really good initiative. And thank you so much for all your work. As Amanda introduced, my name is Parwinder Kaur. I am an associate professor at the University of Western Australia specializing in biotechnology or in simple words, I am a DNA nerd. Really, to be honest. And it's it's been it's been a real privilege to be able to work with a molecule, which is a thread of life or a blueprint of life across this entire,  entire universe. I haven't had a chance to work with anything beyond Earth yet, but I'm hopeful that soon I will be able to do so. 

come from India, as you can all tell. I, I arrived here as a PhD student in 2007 on an international scholarship and very, very grateful to the Australian government for having these scholarships to provide an opportunity and a pathway for a dream to come true. I would not have been able to do so if I did not have that scholarship come my way in 2007. 

I come from a very humble, humble background. My dad was an Indian army and my mum was a homemaker. Never had an opportunity to go to high school. I feel like I'm living this life more for her dream because the day I was born, she was all by herself. My dad was in an exercise posted at a far place and she decided that everything that she could not access and do, she's going to make her daughter do all of that. 

And she, she promised herself that I she will educate me because she could not see a better way to empower, a girl child than educating. And I'm so grateful for her decision and her commitment because it was it was a lifelong, journey for her. Every moment she was the one who stood up and I'm standing here in front of you only because of her efforts. 

Life is really interesting. I was a very annoying child with a lot of questions all the time. And having, not, not having access to, you know, in the community I lived, not many people have been to university at that point of time. So my questions were like really, really difficult for everybody to answer. But I would just keep asking. 

And the key thing that, because I was growing up in a family where there was a huge religious influence and my mum would read those religious books to us and they will talk about where life started and how we all here. And then growing up in a multicultural, community as well, because India is like, you know, 84,000 gods in there and everybody has a different, mythology they follow and they have different explanations from where life started. So that really confused me.  

And then going to the school, I started to sort of, have a very keen interest in, in science specifically, as you can say. And one of my chemistry teacher told me in year six ‘Parwinder we don’t have the answers, questions, answers that you're asking, but maybe it's called DNA and maybe you can chase, you know, the mysteries that you trying to solve’. And that was I mean, I never looked back after that. And that's that's where it all started.  

I did year 12, went into, agriculture because I was really, I was really inspired in, during my school time when I saw the BT cotton introduce. I don't know, many of you heard about the BT cotton. This was, you know, biotechnology revolution where BT cotton, it was a way to, protect the cotton crop from, it's a genetically modified GMO crop.  

But my uncles, when we used to visit them in the village during summer holidays, they used to spray the cotton with 11 different pesticides. So that's like adding a lot of poison to the soil. And then they they, they were very poor because farming is not a very profitable business and when they put this many, this many fertilizers, it cost them a lot and at the end of the day, there is hardly any profit.  

And the person was feeding the rest of the world is struggling to get two meals a day for their own family and that was something that really, got in my head. And I was just like, I want to do something about that and when I got into the university, Panjab Agricultural University, that was the first thing that I chose that I want to work and create things like BT cotton, where we will be able to have opportunities to have better, better farming systems. 

So that's where I started for years studied, I think sixty-three courses or units and in bachelors over there went on to do my, master's in, you know, specializing in insects. I was really interested in plant protection, as you can tell from that. But then it come to have it come to a end for me in India, because… and I never wanted to leave my country because my dad was an army so it was like, you know, built in into the system, patriotism and things like that.  

And, but I could not see a future there because the education system did not permit, going sideways.  

It was, you know, you start very broad in your bachelor’s or in your school, and then it goes narrows and narrows because, you know, you specialize in that. So for me, I think I was just wired very differently and I still question that a lot of time. We are all on a spectrum mostly like, you know, the academic community. 

And I was just like, no, I, I've studied insects. I need to study other things because everything is connected, because that's what I heard all the time, when I was trying to chase the mysteries where life started.  

And that's when I learned that American system, which we followed, and most of my, my colleagues in the, in the Masters, they were all going to US. We all did the GRE TOEFL the usual, exams. I scored well in that and I got admission into California, Davis University. And at the same time, I, I also applied for the Australian scholarship. And I got the APR scholarship at that point of time. And that was the first time I learned about Western Australia. Before that, I have never, ever heard of Perth and everybody I asked, nobody knew anything about this place.  

But with whatever little internet access I had going to the library, I find out that this place has 10% of world's biodiversity, and this place has also got world's poorest soils, hardly any phosphorus. So it just did not add up in my mind. That's like, how come the world's poorest soils, 10% of world's biodiversity? This is a beautiful place.  

If I want to answer my, my questions because nature has found a way. And this is exactly what I wanted to learn, that how nature finds the way. And that's it. I was, you know, I was very, very nervous, did not know anybody, here in Perth and everybody said to me, including my professors back home, that you're making a huge mistake…we don't know where this place is. Nobody from our university has ever gone to. You deserve to go to a better university. This is PhD. And I was like, well, I don't know why, but I will take a chance.  

And that was a very brave decision I made and I have never regretted it. I am very grateful that I made that decision, and I came and this has been the, the best decision of my life. 

I have learned so much, but at the same time, I have been able to solve the mysteries of life that I set out to do.   

So right here, 2007 started my PhD, Australian PhD system. And this is something that nobody in my country ever knew. That Australian system is very different as compared to the rest of the world. 

Normally PhDs are 5 to 6 years. They include a lot of coursework and then you also do the research. But Australian system was very different. I was really able to give, my research full attention because you can deep dive into that. You get paid a very good, generous scholarship. Actually, our PhD scholarships are equal to the post-doctoral salary that they can, like people in Canada and America get. So that was something really, really good. And I I've never known that and nobody in my country knew about those things. So I think we have some work to do, to let people know that why this is such an amazing country and such an amazing opportunity exist here for people. 

In my PhD, I was able to go deep dive into the molecular mechanisms and I was able to connect with a lot, of, lot of really good researchers across the world. And after that, finishing my PhD in a record time, of three and a half years, I… again, because of my wiring, I was just like  ‘okay, I've done the plants, I've done the insects. I've looked at, the pests. Now I want to go further and, and do something more’. And genetics was really intriguing. Genomics was just starting at that point of time sequencing and learning about. And that was like, wow, I can do that in this country.  

And then again, I, I hit a bit of a barrier because, for international students, it's really, really hard. You know, you finish your PhD, but then you don't have the you know, the right kind of the visas. You don't just straight away can apply for the jobs that come and that's a very critical part of your career. And, and for a female, you’re like 30, 32 by the time you finish a PhD. That is also the time to start your family and your life as well. And parents were getting really worried, you know, like because I was probably the last one in my entire family and in the 25 villages over there. So my dad was under an enormous pressure that, you know, I'm not following the right track.  

And that was the time there was then I actually came to do my PhD. and I was, you know, a lot of people said to my dad ‘don't educate the daughter this much because highly, too much educated girls don't make very good homemaker’. So you kind of like disrupting that. Like that pathway is going to be closed for her because she's just going too deep and want to study this and going to another country without getting married.  

And I said to my dad is like, ‘that's fine. you know, let's…’ I, I wanted to debunk that. So I promised him I was like, let me go and I will never let you down. So that was the promise I made. And, and I'm so glad that, you know, I was able to come and pursue my dream because not many people get to do so. 

Once I… and that's probably one of the reasons that I want to wear a Sari today because I, you know, it's very necessary. And being in our traditional, space is kind of like, you know, and I have a ten year old I am still married 15 years, and I do have a family and I am able to, you know, rock the science, and a startup and also Sari and it's, we can, we can have it all. It's it's perfectly fine. It's it's not like, you know, you can do this or you can't do this. 

 And something that, I think I feel a huge privilege when I actually go back because I was seriously the first girl in the 25 villages around my area who got a PhD from a foreign country. And when I wanted to come here, I did not have a role model that I could point my dad to or my mum to, and assure them that this is the future I'm choosing and it's going to be fine.  

But today, when I go and I talk to and mentor, a lot of, you know, kids in the schools and talk to them, at least they have a few role models now, like, like me, who they can point their parents and their parents feel comfortable as well because it's not their fault. They, they have not seen, you know what it means and what can their kids do so they feel scared about their children that this is an unknown territory for them. 

But cut the long story short, biodiversity, I had I had the best career so far. I've had a lot of fun. And that's mainly because I have never followed one discipline. 

And I, my university is still confused which school to place me into because they can't define where I belong. But I feel proud that I was able to pull it off, you know, and I'm able to deliver, to the highest standards of the science a scientist can achieve. 

So after my, you know, I finally become permanent resident, worked for one year for nothing. We were, I think, 22 international students in the cohort. I was, and most of them had a lot of pressure to earn money and run the livelihood.  

And because we had to get the permanent residencies, you just cannot wait for a postdoc fellowship for next two years and not have a livelihood so most of them went into working in other sectors. Unfortunately, PhDs working in IGAs and Woolworths check outs… that really, really break my heart. But that's, I'm still in touch with those people. So I was the only one who, who had the support from my family and they said ‘don't worry, just do what you want to do’. And it's my dad said, it's okay. You pay for your first job and the second job pays you. 

So literally that one year was tough. with the help of the family and friends, I was able to survive and deliver the work, and that by the time I got my permanent resident is straight away, I was able to line myself for Super Science fellowship and started at UWA and CSIRO.  

And again, at that point of time, when I interviewed for a job, my first job, I was told that that is, you know, it was within Australian pasture species and the target was to identify why we have so much methane emissions.  

Forty, 40% of Australian agricultural emissions go from cows and sheep who feed on certain pasture so I was supposed to work on a pasture. And everybody told me ‘Parwinder that this is about this is this is not going to work out. There's hardly any resource on it. You just you just going to go break into a very, very new ground and it's going to be hard’. 

And probably I, I loved challenges, I think and that was kind of my cue that, okay, if, if this is really hard then it's going to be even more fun. So I'm going to do it.  

And I think that that was that laid the foundation for, for a very strong learning for me. In science, resilience is very, very important because when you're trying to do something that has never been done before, the experiment on an average fails about 200 plus times until that one success happened.  

And I, I remember sleeping in the lab. My dad bringing me food at 1:00 in the night, and things like that, but it was the best time of my life and I was able to achieve things, because I had some really amazing collaborators. I did try to reach out to people outside my domains, because I really enjoyed the intellectual conversations, which are not just in my domain, it comes from the other domains. 

And that probably broadened the horizons and my thinking in in different ways that normally people wouldn't.  

So I got the science and the Innovation Award in 2013, and after that I pursued that. And I was a postdoctoral fellow until 2017, which was a long, long time to stay at the lowest paid level in an academic position. And slowly I started to, I thought… I and I was told this, that ‘oh, it's okay Parwinder you don't ask for promotion because then you become expensive and we are on fixed term contract. So people, you know, and if you become expensive then you would be unemployed again’. And I was like, okay, but I'm writing all the grants and I'm winning the grants, so why can't, why, why shouldn't I be asking for promotion? Because I could see everybody around me already moved up to level six, and it was still sitting at the lowest possible level, and there was a time that I decided that I am going if, if this is how it works, it's fine, I'm just going to do something different that is meaningful to me and I'm going to create my own pathway.  

And that's when I, I happened to talk to my US colleagues, and there was a, like, huge consortium that we were going to launch, which is DNA Zoo and I translated the protocol for the very first time in the world, which only works in the human, human cells or the human body. 

I translated that to plans and worked on the on the Australian pasture species, put together the world's first DNA map for that.  

And during that time, being an Indian, I have I'm I, I think I trained I'm trained to be not just negotiate well but also being very, very resourceful. So that come in very, very handy, in research because then I was able to deliver like a lot more with a tiny amount of money that I could get in the grants. 

I will scale down my reactions, like, you know, like, if the company says you can do one reaction with this and 24 with that, I'll scale it down, scale it down. And that that led to a huge innovation in the area because the first DNA map for humans in 2009, it took $2.7 billion to put together. And DNA Zoo we do genomes or DNA maps of better quality than that one, benchmark in 2009, for just $2,000.  

And that enabled a complete new field to, to start and we were just… as a Friday afternoon fund,  this person, I’m  trained in plants and genetics, never, ever actually… was not very good at handling blood. But then there I was with grad students in Houston, in Baylor College of Medicine, where the Houston Zoo was across the road and we started having a lot of fun validating of a protocol. Like, does it just work with this species or can it work with, you know, other, other things as well? And we started to test it. And within, within two years, we sequenced every single species with the Houston Zoo. 

And that's when I went in 2019, to Houston and, we, we decided to go ahead and use our technology for doing something that is more meaningful for us from a science point of view. And at that point of time, UN published that there was about 1 million species, and they're losing one species every ten minutes. And that was really big.  

And we could already because we were working with Houston Zoo, we were all we could have already see that, you know, how much they were able to achieve with the data we produced for them. 

But at the same time, I came back, very lucky. I think I was the first one in my department after 11 years to get tenure or something that, you know, every academic aspires not to be on a fixed term contract but have a permanent position.  

So that was that was really nice. that, DNA because of DNA Zoo and the different kind of the thinking and a big consortium that we brought from the top institutes in the, in the US, I was able to achieve that in my career. 

But then I was also told that this is a professional suicide when I said, to our DVCR that we will be releasing all the data as we generate without publications because normally academic world our, our kudos or KPIs is to deliver publications in the top journals and if you put your data out there without publishing, then there's no rankings for the universities, right?  

So that's what I was told. And I was like, but this the purpose for which we are doing is not for publication. A publication takes us good five years to put together.  By the time that species has gone extinct. So what's, what's the point, you know? And I said, okay, no problems. Again, I think that was the best decision I made in my career and I said, I'm going to go ahead and we will change the way it works. 

Today we have released over 400 genomes open access. As soon as we put it together, we put it out there but we have also achieved publications and a record number of publications in all the top journals. Last week we published like how the marsupials take flight and we identified the gene that encodes for that, in the sugar gliders and it came out in Nature, which is the top journal that an academic can aspire for.  

We published in science […] we went down to 200 million years back in the evolution and I was able to answer the biggest question of my, my life that I was chasing, that how did evolution happen and what it is that is holding us together across a tree of life and that was just one protein. 

And it's just it's just unbelievable that how, how connected we are and yet how different we are. And that's, that's been a of super fun journey. And it would have never, ever happened if I didn't do those Friday afternoons out of the box stuff. Didn't talk to all those people who I have nothing to do with in the in the plant science community. 

And also sometimes just believing in yourself that if this is what you know is, is happiness for you, then it's okay to take a chance, you know, this is not the end of the world…  I'm going to test it out. And I think that comes to scientist a little bit easy because we do we test things and experiment things on a daily basis. 

It’s not all good good, As I say. You know, there's, there's very few highs, but a lot of lows, during that period As I said, like in an academic career or in any careers for females specifically, it's the same time when you're making your career It's the same time when you have to, you know, also make your home. 

And this is this is another big thing that 2013, when, when I got the Science and Innovation Award, that award brought in a lot of, perks in terms of traveling to US and that's exactly where I met the DNA Zoo collaborators and I was able to transform that. But I had my, I, I became mum at that year, and it was a huge decision for me to make that how can I go traveling for five months when I have a three month old baby? I was breastfeeding.  

And that is the time when, again, as I said, I'm standing here because of my mum and she came and she's like ‘it's okay. He is still little and he is going to be very proud of you when he will grow up and you need to do what you want to do, because otherwise you will be regretting for the rest of the life. 

And one thing I learned that time, and I practice it on a daily basis, and I tell everybody that you need to be full to be able to give to others. And if you are not happy inside or you are not able to fulfil or pursue your dreams, you cannot inspire your child to do so. And that was, I think, a big learning, but at the same time, a huge family support I've had and I know many, not many people, especially immigrants, have that kind of a family support to be able to achieve things and the careers go in all directions.  

Yeah. No, So that's, that's pretty much the main parts of my professional journey that I wanted to share with all of you. Some of the, some of the learnings that I would say, changed my life is normally we are in a bit of a race these days. Some things, like everybody's chasing something.  

But what I learned is, and this was something that my dad told me very early on when I started my career is never, ever chase success. Strive for excellence, and whatever you do, give your 200% to it and make sure that it's the best outcome. Because when we were growing up, Delhi University had a admission cut out for 99.9% so you have to be in that point 1% to be able to get to university. You know.  

So that, that was you can only be in that point 1% if you do strive for excellence. So that was kind of like something which was built in so I've always tried to have that kind of a work ethic that I am going to give my best and I'm not comparing myself with anybody, and my best is going to get me there wherever I deserve to be.  

So, and that that helps you from a mental health point of view, because I think there is a lot of comparison these days, and that kind of puts a lot of people in a, in a not so good space, because we are constantly, constantly benchmarking ourselves to other people around us. And everybody has their own journey. Everybody has their own support networks, which they access.  

So by not comparing yourself but, but always focusing on your best can really, really help and protect you, from those vulnerabilities. And um, I do not know whether it is my strength or my weakness. I, I say yes a lot, and I, I, I, I struggle to say no and, but that's, that's only done good to me because I have been able to, you know, do things that I would have never, ever imagined I was. 

I have met the most amazing people in the most, you know, unthinkable, places just because I said yes and I always put myself out of that comfort, comfort zone, because that's where I see that I've been able to build my character and I've been able to grow as a person. It's uncomfortable, even coming and standing here today and saying yes to do the My Australia Story was not was not something, you know, it's, it's not easy. It's it's very hard.  

And then when you come in, you know, getting recorded and you being there and then that's, that's, you know, something that everybody should do because putting yourself out of your comfort zone can, can take you places. It has taken me places. The biggest, the opportunity that I would say I've had in my career and I give a huge, huge applause to Australia for running a program like this, is the superstars of the STEM. 

So for ten years, as I said, I was on the lowest paid salary and I did not know how to break that ceiling. I thought it's just this is how it works. And until I applied for the program and I got selected in the top 60 superstars of this time in 2021 after launching DNA Zoo. And that was the first time before that I was I always, you know, being big nerd in that space, I was not able to go out too much. 

I, I was not very good at networking. I was a bit socially awkward as well. I didn't, I didn't really enjoy that side of the thing, which is very different from the Parwinder you know today. But that program, provided me training for one year. It's a two year program. If, you know, some of you are here, I can see you can apply for that program. 

So if you if you get into that top 60, and you become a superstar of the STEM you stay a superstar of the STEM for the life, But at the same time, it provides you with a lot of training. It gives you a voice, it inspires you, It connects you with the top people you know in your field and across the field in Australia. 

Makes you media ready as well. We were put in studios and, and also tells us exactly how to access the mentors and then what exactly you can do with your mentors,, how to communicate your science and why it is important to communicate your science. And after I learned all of that, I've never actually struggled for money or grant funding because when you're able to communicate it, there is a lot, of lot of, work that needs to be done. 

But the problem was that I was not out there talking to people, connecting to people, telling them why it is important. I knew it in my head, but I was not able to communicate. So that program literally transformed my life and I wish, you know, superstars of STEM is offered in every single country, not just in Australia. 

Something that I would love to see available around the world and maybe we should do another version of it, invest in Australia, because I don't see a lot of Western Australian apply for it and access it just because Canberra is a little too far for us. 

But that's, that's, that's been game changing for me to learn how to connect and learn how to talk and how to express your science in the most relevant ways. 

And because of that, when I learned to speak and I learned that it is okay to say things if and talk about barriers and talk about your struggles and your good enough, because normally what happens is culturally we come from, from countries where we are not very good at asking for things and at the same time, you know, I was I was invited on a few boards and I would just sit there and I was I always like either, serving coffee to everybody or just taking notes because I, it this little voice in my head, which we call imposter syndrome is like ‘am I good enough? Why am I sitting here?’ you know, ‘can I say this? No, I can't say this.’  

I, and, and most of the time, I was the only CALD or women of colour in those, those... and I would not even get their jokes. So that even made it harder for me because they will talk about things that I don't, I can't relate to. 

So I will be, like, in a corner. And that's probably the reason that I hated networking so much, because I just didn't feel that I belong in there. But due to the program superstars of the STEM, I was able to find, find my voice. I was inspired, and I learned how to say it in a respectful way. 

And because of that the opportunity came when the federal government commissioned the diversity in Stem review because we, we need that diversity. 

And I think it's the best thing, in the last two years, a lot of reviews have been commissioned, through the federal government, which are going to change the way science works, because 90% of the science is funded by taxpayers money. Less than 2% of it is actually accessible to, taxpayers. That's a huge, huge problem. Why? 

Why, as a taxpayer, I'm paying for science, which is not even accessible to me? It's, it's behind the paywalls in these fancy journals that that is our KPIs to deliver but we, we actually not delivering to move the world forward.  

So those were all the things that I feel very, very passionately about. And during that review, I was able to work with Minister Cusack's office and deliver 17 recommendations to the federal government, which is right now, and mostly endorsed, there will be an announcement by the Prime Minister next month, hopefully, that how are we going to be implementing those to have better, better diversity. 

And when it comes to diversity, another thing that I wanted to bring to your attention is the last, month's ABS review that came out, gender pay gap. It's really shocking. You know, for every dollar, every, you know, my male colleague is making I'm only making $0.78. And that adds up to $26,000 a year and just add up your working life. That's a huge gap. And I honestly feel, and this is why my mum educated me, because she, she told me that, I, I want to educate you because I want you to be financially independent in your life.  

And if you're financially independent, then I don't have to worry about you because you can look after yourself. You can look after your kids. 

But, I mean, this is a developed nation. I can't piece it together that why we have such a such a such a huge pay gap. And it's even worst for migrants. Australia is a multicultural country with 49%, people who have migrated here directly or had one of the parent migrated here. And out of that 49%, the, the women and men both are on the low pay jobs and they, they are less secure but at the same time, they are also, not the right jobs for the skills they bring to this country.  

So that's a, that's a huge, huge gap that we need to fill because this country, we need skilled talent. But then why are we not accessing that talent when we have it right here? I meet a lot of toppers from my own country that are from like the top institutes driving Ubers because the pathways are not very visible and people do not have a way to engage in, in the meaningful way and the pay gap. 

So even in the migrant communities, there is a huge gap. There is 40, only 49% women who are in the workforce and 70% men who are in the workforce and that too at the lowest level. And I, I see that on a daily basis and it, it really hurts and that's something that I think, good design policy parameter can, can secure a better future for Australia. 

And I think that's why I say even more these days. and, you know, although science is super fun and I've had a lot of amazing time, but I think I've kind of like answered the questions that I wanted to answer from an evolution point of view. And I feel like that we got to be in it to be able to, you know, guide this new Australia because this new Australia has the best opportunities. 

This is the best country. I've had an opportunity to travel a lot, and every time I've travelled and come home, I was just like, this was the best decision I made to live in this beautiful paradise.  

It's a real privilege, but at the same time, we have a long way to go. because if we really want to strive for that excellence and want to be the country which is a creator, not a consumer, you know, from other nations innovations, we really need to work hard and genuine inclusiveness because until we get that financial parity, it's not a genuine inclusion. 

It's because then those people are always going to be dependent and always going to be looking to somebody else to be able to, you know, do the right thing for them.  

And so that's, that's pretty much me and my story. And I was I was asked to, you know, share my key learnings. So I put five of my key learnings from my journey to share with all of you. 

The first one is specifically for the for the CALD communities and the migrants and the women. 

Embrace power. It's okay. Make tough decisions and do not confine yourselves to the societal norms. Because if I would have, I would not have been able to live the life that I have been able to live.  

Embrace your uniqueness. It is okay to be different. 

It took me ten years to find out that I do not need to fit in. It's okay for me to wear my traditional clothes and go to work. It is perfectly fine. People are very respectful and they, they really appreciate it. I do not need to fit in and you know. And why fit in when you can stand out? It's perfectly fine.  

And another important thing is channel your core values in your leadership style, because that makes you who you are and it's it makes you authentic, makes you unique.  

Another one is, you know, there, there are predefined moulds and stereotypes. I blamed myself to be wired differently on a spectrum, and a lot of times questioned my choices. 

But when I look back now, I feel proud of myself that I did not fit. I did not, you know, follow those stereotypes.  

So if that is the pathway you want to follow, if that does not exist, and that is going to be a case for many of our young people, because the kind of the jobs they're going to be having, the kind of the problems they're going to be solving, they need a multi-disciplinary mindset, but we are teaching them in school ‘this is a math problem. This is a science problem. This is a social sciences problem.’  

But problems do not have disciplines written on front of them. You know, we need to be able to teach them, but we are not teaching them. So they will have to carve their own pathways and not fit into the stereotype. So it is perfectly fine. 

And the last one is: Develop a thick skin because you will be told every day, this is not possible, you can't do this. And I think, you know, I in, in my, religious book, when I do my prayers in the morning, it says, Manjeet, which means conquer your mind to conquer the world, because if you can conquer your mind, you can conquer anything in this world. 

And do not take no for an answer. You know, believe in yourself.  

And I would like to end with the very wise words of Brené Brown; ‘When we deny our stories, they define us. When we own our stories, we get to write a brave new ending.’  With that. Thank you so much, everybody. 

MJ: Thank you. Thanks so much. Excellent talk, and for showing us your invaluable insights. We are going to open up for questions, but before that, can I invite Mr. Alec Coles to [OFF MIC DIALOGUE]  I know you all have. You have another event, too. So, you know, we're going to swap this quickly for you. Better. Yeah. So we're going to. 

AC: Thank you.  

PK: And Alec's been making a lot of noise.  

AC: I've been making... Yeah, my, my thanks may be longer than your talk. Yeah, but I was waiting for the question, so I've. I've been caught off, off guard here. But anyway, Parwinder what a privilege to hear that and what a privilege is to work with you, I have to say. 

And just so many things to reflect on. I wrote, I was writing incessantly, but anyway, a young girl who asked so many questions that she was annoying... 

PK: I was very annoying. 

AC: Yeah, that we, perhaps that's what we call a curious mind.  

And anyone who knows Parwinder as many of you do, I'm sure, would recognize, when she spoke about her Indian identity, that it conferred upon her negotiating skills and resourcefulness headed to that determination.  

And that is why she has achieved what she's achieved because she is, frankly, unstoppable. And we should not be surprised, therefore, that, she is such a leader in her field and not only that, but as she referred to very strongly at the end as to someone who has inspired women in STEM and continues to inspire them. 

And she does that, by showing just what is possible. And that for me, is the, the strongest inspiration you can give is to actually show others what can be done.  

And I love the fact that, you know, you reference your mum and dad so much and I'll come back to that.... but your, your father's message to strive for excellence because that's really what we, we should all do. 

So it's no surprise that she has such an impressive CV and she, she referenced the fact she was only three women on that panel looking at diversity in STEM for the federal minister Ed Husic and, and for me, I'm, I'm much prone to hyperbole, I have to say, but I only use it when I think it's true and, and that work that determination to actually look at these issues of gender inequality, she is literally changing the world. 

And she's also recently become a special adviser to our minister in WA, Stephen Dawson, through the Department of Jobs, Tourism, Science and Innovation, working on the ten year science and technology plan. But I know Parwinder, first knew Parwinder through the work in DNA zoo Australia, where she asked me to chair the advisory group of that and, needless to say, Parwinder’s is not somebody you can say no to very easily so I said yes and that's how we work together.  

And, and in doing what she's doing, and again, she gave you an insight into some of that work. I often talk about our researchers at the museum who do a lot of work in the biodiversity field. and, you know, we've talked about changing the world. I say, I say they are saving the world and again, that's exactly what she's doing through the, the work, on, genomics and actually helping us understand particularly these species that are so, so, under threat.  

And I really like that quote at the end, ‘conquer your mind and you’ll conquer the world’ and I think that's what you're doing.  

It was interesting. You gave us your, you know, your five lessons. I’d already started writing down lessons that I thought now will come through. And, and the first one was that that saying about determination and belief, and again, I picked up a quote from, from some information before that you say ‘everything simple if you break it down’. it is a great quote, and I'm not sure I'm not sure we've all experienced that, but the fact that that you drive yourself with a is, is just, I suppose, instructive of the way you think. 

And I must admit, I often say to people, I think that 90% of achievement is belief. And it's your belief that has actually brought you, where you are.   

I love to always say yes, that's actually one of my quotes. Always say yes. You know, people say, can we do this? Say yes, then worry about how you do it later. 

I work with people who say, oh, you know, ‘we can't do this when we haven’t got the money’, as I say, ‘tell us what you are going to do. Well, find the money’ you know, and, so for me, that's a great, a great lesson.   

Interesting, you know, whilst I, I can in no way aspire to, your, know, levels of achievement, the things that you said that resonated so much with me, another one; working against type. 

Anybody who knows you as this gregarious, outgoing, in your face, someone you can't say no to and you say you actually found that very difficult before the, you know, the stars of STEM thing.  

And people probably would say the same of me, you know, I'm always out there, you know, yakking. but that's totally against type for me and sometimes you have to work against type, to get where you are. And that's exactly what you did.  

But what I also loved about what you talked about was family. And I think, you know, those of us, parents would do well to remember that, because the tribute you paid particularly to your mother for the support that she gave you and that she, you know, gave you those opportunity along the way from very young. 

But then also, when you became a mother yourself, to, just believe that achieve what you've done. I think it's so powerful. And that's been a powerful story, I think, throughout these my Australia Stories, of people who, you know, often through adversity or through discrimination or whatever, they've got families who get behind them and I think it's something that we should all recall.\ 

So, thank you so much for sharing that, you are truly an inspiration to people working in STEM, but you're particularly an inspiration to, to women in that field. long may it continue. And, long may they. And you conquer the world. Thank you.  

PK: Thank you.  

MJ: Thank you Alec for the inspiring comments and for your support for the program overall, really appreciate where we are. Now we open the floor for questions. So if you have any questions or any comments to share with our speaker, now is a time. Can we invite you back to the stage?  

PK: Yes, absolutely.  

Thank you Dr Parwinder. That's very inspiring. Everything you share really highly resonate with that. I just want to ask from your capacity as a researcher as well...and you do many things. How do you, from a mind perspective, how do you stay sharp and how do you acquire knowledge?  

And I'm especially asking that, as you mentioned, you interact with people outside your discipline as well and you said that it was really pivotal for you in just broadening your understanding. And so my question again I'm just curious how do you how do you stay sharp and how do you acquire knowledge?  

That's a very good question. Thank you so much. You know, I was not the, the brightest in my, cohorts ever, but I was definitely the one who... until I find the answer or until I solve the problem, I just cannot sleep or just can't be at rest. So that's, that's something I think has really helped me along the way to sort of stay above in that space.  

But at the same time acquiring knowledge...we, you know, lifelong learning is, is absolutely true. And that's why we have two ears and one mouth so if you want, if you want to really acquire knowledge and you want to learn from other people, you speak less, you listen more and you act more as well.  

So that that's, that's been my strategy. And when I'm surrounded by people or when I'm networking, I like to learn and I like to hear more and... and I enjoy listening, you know, going to places where people are not from my discipline because I feel like that's, that's the most exciting thing, to be able to learn about other things because I'm, I'm deep into my discipline and I'm doing that all the time as well and it also kind of broadens your horizons.  

And if you, and, and always show a genuine and authentic respect from the people, you're learning because that does connect to you at a different level with those people. And when you make that connection, you're able to access that wisdom, you know, for a lifelong learning perspective. 

So, normally when I go to networking I don't aim to, you know, introduce and know every single person in the room. I stick with 1 or 2 maximum, but I make a genuine connection with those people and make sure that then I continue that connection. So that's, less is more. Yeah. Listen. More speakers.  

AUDIENCE: Appreciate that. Thanks. 

PK: Thank you. 

Prashant Singh: Thanks Parwinder. Prashant Singh, founder of Indian Australian Technology Forum. Parwinder is one of our advisors as well. We work on a lot of, social causes and work on diaspora as well. Absolutely. Fantastic to hear from you again. Very inspiring talk.  

You touched on a couple of points, which is very relevant at the moment, especially, with the gender equity in terms of pay, but also in terms of what's happening around the world and especially in Australia, 1 in 4 women losing life you know, and one every four days. So what we can do, as a community and what we can do to make sure this stop somewhere? that's, becoming one of those, you know... and it's happening at workplace as well as across society. It doesn't, differentiate between people, low income, high income. So what we can do and how we can actually influence that? 

PK: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a really concerning space. But at the same time, I, I very strongly feel that it all starts with the you if you look at the data, it's not that much in the high income streams that it is in the low income streams and that is exactly where the root causes. If we do not educate people and do not empower people from an equity point of view, I think they, they struggle to support themselves and their dependencies are higher.  

I, I do not advocate for always money solving the problems. I think a lot of things in this world at this moment that we are experiencing are mostly cultural and mindset issues, and if we can actually work on that, we can achieve a lot of things for a lot less of the, you know, the money that's, that's been, in the talks right now in the thing.  

And I think domestic violence is something that is deep rooted in the behaviours, and behavioural changes are the most difficult changes. But then that's where education comes in. Building a strong foundation, you know, from, from the beginning.  

Not like educating when, a boy turns 18, it has to start when they are eight and when they are just starting in the school. 

And I think that's, that's where I, we, we are. I mean, it surprises me we are a developed nation. And, if you look at the ABS data and I'm so sorry, I'm a nerd. I kind of look at data all the time. But if you look at the data, that tells you very clearly that, you know, how much of our education sector we are focusing on these things and how we are resourcing that kind of education, in our schools? 

Something like this, I would, I would be like, okay, fine, this kind of, salaries for the teachers and this is the resourcing for the schools in a developing country like India, but it just does not make sense to me, happening in Australia.  

So I think the education is very empowering, and equity. And this is a beautiful country which can achieve that and has all the means and the resources, and that will bring a behavioural shift. 

And that's just my view. And I, I strongly believe that way. Yeah. So don't give money, give scholarships, give education. Run that kind of programs which actually make, make the change rather than a one-off payment here and a one-off payment that does not solve our problems.  

PS: Okay. Thank you.  

Audience member question: You touched on something which I've, come across not only for myself, but for other people that have immigrated into this country, which is that, that skills transfer and I've spoken with a lot of people that are highly, highly qualified that could contribute spectacularly to Western Australian if not Australia [PK: Yeah] and are just tied down to a very basic, basic level because they are not able to transfer that skill set into going into universities or, you know, high paying positions or innovative spaces and I was just wondering, are you aware of any programs or initiatives where, that has been addressed in Western Australia? 

PK: No. And actually, that's one of the biggest gap that we've got. We, we, we are so, we're struggling for this talent. And it is right here, you know, present around us. And we have not facilitated those pathways for them, as I said. I mean, we were 22, you know, I'm the only one in science. They all did PhDs and they are working in the supermarkets. 

I mean, how, how fair is that? It takes 30 years of somebody's life to achieve a, a doctorate degree, and it's the highest form of education. So just imagine the only 2% people go into PhDs. So why, why is that? I think it's just because it's, it's a it's a phase when people are, you know, finishing up their degrees or even coming, finishing their degrees and coming here looking for better opportunities. 

There is a gap between their first job and that and when they're doing the skills transfer, when they're coming from abroad or they are people like me who are waiting for their permanent residency to come, If they have chosen this country to continue their academic career or profession. 

And that is the period which is the valley of death for a lot of immigration. And once you get caught up in that, you know, daily breadwinning, space, it's very hard to then come back to your professional space. And that is what happens for females. They just go and, you know, they decide to have a family and then they, just it's, it's so hard to come back. And the number is very, very, very little. 

And even for men, it's not much different because I have spoken to a lot of people. I take Uber and I like to, you know, know and have a conversation. So last time I've had, I it was really shocking. I had an IIT topper up from Madras, which is the top IIT institute in my country. 250,000 people appear in the entrance and only 15 get selected, right? 

So just imagine that someone of that calibre he was driving an Uber and I asked him was like, why are you driving an Uber? He said, because I, I did not belong. I felt, I was always in a corner. He worked for Deloitte, you know, big company, but he just could not fit in. And that was too stressful. 

So he decided to sit in the taxi and, and do his own thing. He felt happy that way. And I'm like, and it was it was just a cultural barrier that he could not cross. And I think if there was a more inclusive environment at the workplace and it was supported that, that transition or that integration was supported a little better, you know, he would have contributed so much to that company. 

So yeah, things like that.   

And sometimes it's just too hard, you know, if we want to be happy, if we are spending so much time at work and, it's got to be genuinely inclusive and people struggle and people have all sorts of stories. So Yeah...and, and if you can please read that, diversity in STEM review that has over a thousand interviews we did and the recordings available and I, I've had the privilege to speak to hundreds of people across the country and run workshops. And it's, it's common problems and, and not very expensive to fix. Yeah.  

MJ: Thank you for the excellent questions, everyone. And thank you to Parwinder. Can I invite Amanda Davies and Mr Alec Coles to the stage to present a small gift to pointed up as a question about you? 

AD: Thank you, thank you. I'm delighted that our truly awful soils in Western Australia attracted you. It's good.  

You're incredibly impressive and I understand the journey you are on as an academic and also a communicator, a mother... but representing diverse communities is incredibly important so thank you for all the work that you're doing. 

PK: Thank you. Thank you so much. 

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